| @ianr (and slightly ben as well). I hope I haven't misinterpreted any of what you've said and I apologise in advance if I have. A group of three charters from Worcester (889), Glastonbury (891) and Wilton (892) report Alfred as rex Anglorum et Saxonum, Anglorum Saxonum rex and Angol Saxonum rex respectively. Even those without knowledge of Latin can see this translates as King of the Angles and Saxons (Anglo-Saxons). Also Asser, historian monk to Alfred, calls Alfred throughout his work as King of the Anglo-Saxons.
Agreeably the case of Egbert (after a bit of further study) is more controversial. He is often regarded in popular culture as being the being the first King of the English (as he is on my chart of Monarchs of England and Monarchs of England pack of cards (not the 52 playing deck of cards but a pack showing the rulers of England)). However it seems that although he never held the title King of the Anglo-Saxons, he did hold both the kingship of Wessex and Mercia, though not for very long, and was a kind of over lord for Northumbria. So although Egbert is often classed as the first King of England or of the English, I could see argument against it. Also his son and grandsons up to Alfred certainly could not claim to be Kings of a united England.
So in respect to Ben, with the possible exception of Egbert, all the other Kings I named ruled over either the "Anglo-Saxons" or later on the change of the word to "English". I do admit that I was wrong that England was fully fledged under Egbert and I retract that statement. However, it has not changed the fact that Edward I (Longshanks, or Hammer of the Scots) is not Edward IV due to the change of dynasty not that the other three Edwards did not rule a united country or have the title of King of England as they did. Also, interesting to note, in popular culture at least, the three previous Edwards are known by their epithets (the elder, the martyr and the confessor) to distinguish them from the later Edwards; hence we have Harold the I and II pre-Norman conquest but the no Edward I,II or III, even though technically they are there. |
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